Sid Roth - The Secret Demons Don't Want You to Know
Sid Roth: Hello, Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it's naturally supernatural. Do you realize, just as I'm doing this introduction, God is beginning to heal people in their back, and in their neck, and in their hip? God is such a good God. My guest Don Dickerman, he looks like a nice normal person, but you have prayed for approximately how many people that have been set free from evil spirits, curses?
Don Dickerman: You know through our one-on-one deliverance ministry and corporate deliverance ministry, probably over 25,000.
Sid Roth: You just don't look like someone that set 25,000 and not only that, but most of them are in prison. You went to something like 700 prisons, and you would tell people about God, and they would have genuine experiences...
Don Dickerman: Right.
Sid Roth: With God, and they'd get out of prison. And you would happen to find: and the next thing you'd know, they'd be back in prison. This must have been very discouraging for you.
Don Dickerman: You know, it was, and not that I felt like a failure, but I couldn't understand why guys would get genuinely born-again: fall in love with Jesus, read their Bible, go to Bible studies. Get out of prison, and only make it to 5 or 6 months, and they're right back in the cycle. That became so frustrating, I remember praying about it many times. What am I missing?
Sid Roth: There was one particular time that you prayed a very special prayer about being a deliverer.
Don Dickerman: Yeah, I remember that well. I was in Galveston, after some prison services. And I told my wife, I'm just going to take a couple of days to fish and relax. But I remember one afternoon coming in from the fishing piers, and frustrated, I just climbed up in the middle of the motel bed and wept. But I remember in that prayer, I asked God, "Why can't I be a deliverer"?
Sid Roth: You didn't even know what you were saying, did you?
Don Dickerman: No, no, no... No, but my heart was sincere. Why can't I get people out of bondage? What am I missing? And though I didn't know, when I said "Deliverer" what was ahead.
Sid Roth: That it was literal.
Don Dickerman: Yeah.
Sid Roth: So, you went to a prison, and one of the workers there had a vision about you.
Don Dickerman: Yeah-yeah.
Sid Roth: Tell me about that.
Don Dickerman: This was probably 6 months later. I was preaching in a federal prison, down in three rivers, Texas below San Antonio. And there was an officer seated in the chapel, which is pretty unusual. He was with the inmates. After the service, he came up to me to make some conversation. He told the officer on duty who was stationed in the chapel. He said, "I'll walk him to his car. I want to talk to him". So, we headed across the prison grounds and just talked about where he went to church and so on. That he was studying for the ministry, that's why he was off duty and came to the chapel because he was going to be a Christian counselor: and is now, in the prison system. But after we had prayer in the parking lot, I left to go back to corpus Christi where I was staying and he was going back to Beeville. So we were on the same road without knowing it. And I pulled over to a little gas station grocery store to get some Dr. Pepper and some Fritos or something before I headed to corpus Christi. Well, he pulls up right behind me, and he gets out of his car like he's T.D. Jakes or something. He's just bouncing, like, "Get ready, get ready, get ready"! Well, he came over to the side of the car and motioned for me to let the window down. He had so much excitement in his voice. But he said, "While you were preaching, I had a vision of a big black pot, and you were standing in the middle of this pot. And there was oil bubbling all around you: not boiling, just bubbling". And he said, "All around this pot, there was just a sea of sick people. And the stench from their sickness was nauseating as it went up into the heavens". But he said, "Then that oil began to bubble up and covered you, and it ran down your arms, and touched the people, they were healed". And he said, "Get ready brother, God's fixin' to pour it out on you". And I knew, I don't know how to explain.
Sid Roth: But you come from a more evangelical Baptist type of a background. So this was kind of new for you.
Don Dickerman: Yeah, it was real new. It was something I'd longed for. I'd seen thousands of people receive Christ in prison. I mean literally, thousands. But I never seen anyone healed. I'd never seen anyone delivered.
Sid Roth: Shortly after that, people, when you would speak, you wouldn't even pray for them. You didn't even know how to pray for them. And what would happen?
Don Dickerman: Well, you know, when I left the prison, I couldn't keep tears out of my eyes. Part of my prayer was, "God, I don't know how to do this". They didn't teach me this. But what I felt the Holy Spirit told me was, "You just keep preaching". Well, I started getting letters from inmates who would tell me, "I know you don't know this. But while you preaching, heat just came all over me. And I use to have 'this', but I don't have it anymore". And so I began to...
Sid Roth: And people started falling.
Don Dickerman: Yeah.
Sid Roth: I mean that's kind of unusual for a Baptist.
Don Dickerman: Yeah, it was. And sometimes guys would come up for the altar call, and before I would even touch them, they would fall.
Sid Roth: The Spirit of God would just put them down on the ground.
Don Dickerman: Yeah, I didn't know, I knew what it was, but I didn't know what it was. I didn't know how to make it happen. I didn't know how to not make it happen. But...
Sid Roth: Well, I'll tell you what. When we come back in a moment, I want to find out about the first major healing that occurred with Don. And many of you, I mean I can hear backs cracking into place, necks, bones of all kind are cracking into place when we come back, you're going to find out about such an amazing miracle, but there is power in hearing someone else talk about the miracle. You're about ready to be healed. Yes you, we'll be right back.
Sid Roth: Hello, Sid Roth here with, Don Dickerman. And Don, you were more amazed, than anyone when people started getting healed. But then you started having visions. How many times, when you've had a vision from God, how accurate is it?
Don Dickerman: You know, I guess have to say I don't have them very often. But every time , something is revealed to me in a service situation, it happens.
Sid Roth: Tell me about the first healing.
Don Dickerman: The first healing was, through a Revelation, a vision, was at the wynne unit in Huntsville Texas. It's a big prison with maybe 400 people in the chapel. And there was a praise group singing before I was to get up and preach. So, I'm sitting off to the side, and I had just a mental image. But I could see an ugly jagged tooth rat inside someone's colon just gnawing away.
Sid Roth: Mm.
Don Dickerman: And I didn't know, I never had anything like that happen. I didn't know what to do with it, but I felt like the Holy Spirit was telling me that somebody was going to be healed of that situation. So, when I got up to speak, I mentioned that. And I thought, revealed what I had seen. I said, "Somebody with that condition is going to be healed tonight". Well and inmate jumped up, and ran down the aisle, and said, "That's me, that's me"! And I prayed for him, and he went back to his seat, but he wasn't the one. So at the close of the service, as the inmates were filing back to their cell blocks and dorm areas. An inmate came up and put a note in my pocket. And he hung around as I was shaking hands with the guys. And he said, "Sir, would you read the note right now"? So, I pulled the note out, and I read it, and it said, "I'm the one". And then he began to tell me that he had just gotten back from John Sealy hospital, a medical place. And they had diagnosed him with a colon problem, and said, since you're going home in a few months, it can wait till you get back in the free world. But he lifted up his shirt, and there was a knot right around his belt area. And I knew when he did, I knew that was it. It was like what I saw. And I said, "Well, I want to pray for you right now". I put my hand right on that spot and commanded the demon powers to leave him and healing to come. And he threw up blood, and bile, and ugly situation. But the other inmates went and got towels, and cleaned that up. I walked to the back door as he went back to his cell. He said, "I don't have any pain". Well, I don't know who he is, and I leave the prison, and he's back in his cell block. So it was next month when I was back at that prison. He met me at the chapel door, and the first thing he did was lift up his shirt, and he said, "Brother Don, it's gone, and I haven't had a pain since then".
Sid Roth: You must have been shocked, and pleased, and surprised, as him.
Don Dickerman: Yeah, sometimes it overwhelms you because you know. I didn't have anything to do with it.
Sid Roth: Well, speaking of being overwhelmed, I am overwhelmed with your book, because this is the most practical, easy: someone doesn't deal with fear...
Don Dickerman: Right.
Sid Roth: They deal with rights. Legal rights.
Don Dickerman: Legal rights.
Sid Roth: And this is for someone that needs self-deliverance, or someone that needs to pray for someone else. What are some of the signs that someone may need to set free of a demonic spirit?
Don Dickerman: Well...
Sid Roth: It may be inside someone...
Don Dickerman: Yeah, right.
Sid Roth: It may be outside someone, the plane doesn't matter.
Don Dickerman: Yeah, well Jesus said, "Cast them out". So, that's what we do, you know? And to me, it's pretty simple. But I find this 4 principles involved. These apply to anyone, at anywhere. The first principle is you either have demons, or you don't. And if you do have demons, then it must be that that demon has some kind of legal permission to be there. That could be unforgiveness, it could be generational cursing, it could be a number of things. But it must have permission. The third thing, there is no permission that cannot be canceled. We can repent of anything. Jesus, you know his blood covers everything. Then the fourth principle is to watch those legal consents have been canceled. The name of Jesus is absolute authority every time.
Sid Roth: You know, you have some insight in here, I guess it's having so much experience one-on-one. But one of the things you said that I've never heard before. I have heard it's very important to forgive because Jesus said, "I'll forgive you to the same degree that you forgive other people". However, I never heard that once you forgive, you command the spirit that was attached to you because of the unforgiveness to leave. And so people forgive, and they still have that oppression.
Don Dickerman: Yeah, you know when I first encountered that, it was through: I don't have conversations with demons, I have confrontations with them. But they do speak many times through the individual. And I've had demons when I command them to leave, I say, "Do you have permission to stay there"? "No". I say, "Well, why are you there"? And the response would be, "No one ever told me to go". So they become like 'squatters'. So I would find that somebody would say, "Yeah, I had a period of unforgiveness in my life 10 years ago, but I repented of that". Okay, but the demon's still hanging out because he wasn't cast out.
Sid Roth: Well you know, it's time for the 'squatters' in your life to leave.
Don Dickerman: Yeah.
Sid Roth: And it's so easy, and so simple, and there's no fear involved. It's just plain faith in the integrity of someone stronger: your big brother Jesus. When we come back, you're going to hear and interview I did with one of the most notorious prisoners in Ireland. I think he stabbed 15 people by the time he was age14. By the time he was 17, he murdered someone. This is such an amazing story. We'll be right back after this word.
Sid Roth: Hello, Sid Roth here with, Don Dickerman. Do you remember "Son of Sam"? David Berkowitz, the mass murder from the New York area? Well, Don wrote a letter to David, and how did he respond to your letter while he was in prison.
Don Dickerman: Well, it's interesting. Actually, that was in 1978: he had just been sentenced and I didn't know the guy. I just knew what the headlines in the papers were. But I've seen people saved in prison, so I wrote David a letter. And I said, "David, God still loves you and Jesus can save you". And he wrote me right back and said, "If I get out of here, I'll kill you".
Sid Roth: Well he didn't get out.
Don Dickerman: No, he won't get out.
Sid Roth: But you went back into the prison, and he came up to you?
Don Dickerman: This was 10 years later. I was in his prison, not knowing he was there. But after the service, I didn't know what he looked like. After the service, he came up to me and put his arm around me. He said, "I want you to know, I appreciate you being faithful over these years, coming into these dark places, with the light of the gospel. By the way, my name is David Berkowitz". And I could tell, I could look at his eyes, I could tell something happened. I said, "David, are you saved? Are you born-again"? And he said, "Yes sir. I got saved a couple of years ago", and no one knew his story. He said, "I know the media will get a hold of it, and twist it". But he said, "Yeah, I love Jesus".
Sid Roth: And then you became friends. And one prisoner can't write to another prisoner, so he asked you to write to one of the most hardened prisoners in Ireland.
Don Dickerman: Right. Yeah.
Sid Roth: Tell me about that.
Don Dickerman: He had read in some paper about Eddie Ferncombe, the most notorious criminal in Ireland, and feared criminal. He said, "Would you write to this man, and witness to him like you did to me"? Well, of course, I did, and over a period of several weeks of writing, Eddie accepted Christ by mail. And he asked me if I had any tapes of services or teachings. He said, "I have a little tape player: can you send me some"? So, I gathered a handful of tapes and mailed them to Eddie. And he wrote me, in a couple of weeks I got a letter from him. On one of the tapes, I had done a corporate deliverance, "Going to silently address those issues in your mind and choose to be free from them. I'm going to bind them". Well, so I sent him that tape, and as he was listening to that tape, demons began to manifest in him and they couldn't be still. And he was trembling and sweating: so he told his Chaplin about it the next day and asked the Chaplin if he'd help him. And he said, "The Chaplin laughed at me". Well he asked me in the letter if I would consider coming to Ireland to minister deliverance. "I know what my problem is". Well, I didn't know how I would get to Ireland, but I felt God's spirit telling me to go. So, I went to Ireland, and eventually met with Eddie. And I told Eddie, I said, "You know what? There's a qualification. You can't have any unforgiveness in your life". Because as we talked, I could sense he did. And he said, "I can't do that brother Don, I can't". He was going to kill the man that snitched on him. And that was his plan to get out of prison and do that. And I said, "Eddie, I can't help you if you can't forgive". Well, I went back 2 days later, and he came out with a big smile on his face. We're in a super isolation area. He's got 4 officers escorting him. He's in waist chains and ankle chains, and handcuffs, but he had this big smile on his face and he said...
Sid Roth: But what did the prison think about you going.
Don Dickerman: Oh, they couldn't understand why I was there. I wasn't sure I could explain it to them.
Sid Roth: I came to set someone free of a demon.
Don Dickerman: But you know what, one officer who was escorting me back to that area, and it's like a dungeon. It's where they kept the IRA prisoners in Portlaoise, Ireland. He said, "Are you like David Wilkerson"? Well, I knew what he meant, and I said, "Yeah, I am". "I know what you're here: well, you're welcome here lad". Well, I went back to Eddie's area, they had a glass, Plexiglas booth where an officer sat to overlook...
Sid Roth: Right.
Don Dickerman: To make sure that nothing went wrong. So while they're bringing Eddie back to that area, I looked at that officer, and I thought, I don't know what he's going to think if Eddie screams, or makes some kind of noise. So I went over and tapped on the glass, and I said, "Sir, I just want to explain what I'm here for and what I do". I explained the deliverance process, and as I was warning him of what might happen, he said, "Help yourself, lad, help yourself". Eddie came in and we sat down across from each other, just like you and I are. He said, "I did it, brother Don. I forgave". And you could see in his eyes that it was real. So, we went through the process of binding demons, and commanding them to leave. And they did, Eddie's been out of prison now...
Sid Roth: I tell you what, Eddie's been out for how long?
Don Dickerman: I think for maybe 6 years.
Sid Roth: Well, I caught up with Eddie. Eddie is out of prison, and I interviewed him by way of radio. And I asked him some questions about what it was like to be set free of these evil spirits. Let's go to that audio interview.
Sid Roth: Imagine that? This is what he said to me. He said, when I said, "What's it feel like"? He says, "It feels like I'm stoned". He was so, here he is in the worse prison of prisons, with no hope for any future, hating, just wanting to get out, to murder another person.
Don Dickerman: Right.
Sid Roth: And he feels the love of God. God is so good.
Don Dickerman: Yes he is. And you know what, we see that all the time. Not to that extreme, but when someone's in bondage, and they're free, while it may be relative, it's freedom, non-the-less. And my experiences that most Christians are in some kind of bondage.
Sid Roth: Either they're oppressed, or they have some sort of additive part of their personality.
Don Dickerman: Yeah, generally I think the rule of thumb is, the question I get a lot is: "How do you know if it's the flesh or..."? Sometimes you can't know, but when it becomes irrational anger, irrational fears, anything that's to the extremes, generally that's a demon spirit.
Sid Roth: And you know, one thing I read which was interesting. Even fear that God isn't going to forgive you of your sins, that is demonic.
Don Dickerman: Yes.
Sid Roth: I'll tell you something. I am so excited to make his new book available to you because it's so simple. And you know the only fear you have of a demon is the fear the demon gives you. And when you have faith, you understand that that demon is far more afraid of you, than you're afraid of that demon.