Joyce Meyer - Why Mentorship Matters - Part 2
- Watch
- Audio
- Donate
- How to know Jesus
Ginger Stache: Hey everyone, welcome to, «Enjoying Everyday Life». Today, sit down and talk with Joyce and Grammy winner, Cece Winans. We’re continuing our conversation about the incredible value of mentorship. It’s a discussion that will enrich your life and others. So join us now, as we talk it out.
Joyce Meyer: I’ve had to learn, hoo, have I had to learn. And I not only had to learn what to do, but I had to learn what not to do. And we need each other more than we can imagine. We have so many unbelievably talented young people here at the ministry. Now, I don’t know what in the world we would do, if we were all my age. We wouldn’t have the ministry we have today, I can tell you that.
Ginger Stache: Let me ask you a question about mentorship that I think is a trap that we can get in. I know it’s easy for most of us. So a biblical example, Elijah had Elisha, correct? And so when the time came and Elisha asked for a double portion of Elijah’s anointing, a lot of us as mentors, we think, wait a minute. You know, I wanna teach you stuff, but I don’t want you to be better than I am. You know, the double portion. Hold on there, honcho.
Erin Cluley: Is that what it says in the Bible?
Ginger Stache: It does. That’s in a special version. «Hold on there, honcho». Then it makes me think of what is our goal as people who are sowing into other people’s lives? It can’t be to give them just enough to survive. We need to want them to go even further than we have gone ourselves.
Cece Winans: Much further. You know, it reminds me of the time when Bebe and I, we were receiving our Hollywood walk of fame star.
Erin Cluley: That’s fun.
Cece Winans: Yes, it was very fun. And I remember…
Joyce Meyer: Well, I don’t have one of those.
Cece Winans: Ah, we gotta work on that, we need to work on that.
Joyce Meyer: We’ll have to do one here.
Cece Winans: That’s right.
Ginger Stache: St. Louis has a walk of fame, too.
Cece Winans: That’s right. And I remember somebody was, this wonderful man of God was praying for us. And he gave me a word. He said, «Even what’s happening now, God is not through with you. He’s gonna do so much more». He said, «But I see young people around you. I see a whole, sea of young people». And he said, «Your ceiling will be their floor». Your ceiling…
Joyce Meyer: That’s interesting.
Cece Winans: What God is gonna do with them. Your ceiling will be their floor. And going in what you said, I just think our prayers has got to be, «Lord, do way more through them than what you did through us».
Joyce Meyer: And God is a progressive God. He always wants to grow and go to the next level. And we don’t want to try to put a lid on that, out of pride that we don’t want somebody to be better than we were, or to be more popular than we were.
Erin Cluley: So I’m kind of an interesting age group because I am the mentee. And then now I realize last week I was having coffee with a girl who’s 20. I actually am old enough to be a mentor in some cases because I have…
Ginger Stache: Oh, you have so much to offer for many.
Erin Cluley: Who knew?
Ginger Stache: Yeah, I knew.
Erin Cluley: Well, thank you. I just figured that out. But as the person who’s being menteed, what is…
Joyce Meyer: «Menteed»?
Erin Cluley: Is that a word?
Joyce Meyer: I don’t think so.
Erin Cluley: I just made that up for you.
Ginger Stache: It’s what you use to freshen your breath, too.
Erin Cluley: The person who needs to be mentored. How is the appropriate way to do that? Because there’s also a respect level where I’m gonna wait until you’re ready to tell me what you wannna tell me, and you’re ready to move me forward or whatever. So what does that balance look like from someone who is mentoring someone? What is our responsibility in that?
Cece Winans: The mentee?
Erin Cluley: Yes.
Cece Winans: Well, I think, first of all, you have to be willing to hear. You have to be willing to listen. And I believe when you… Now, some people don’t know that they need to be mentored, right? But those who know they need to be mentored, I think you have to take the responsibility to be where you need to be. I wanna learn from her. You know, I wanna teach like Joyce teaches. It’s my responsibility to make sure I’m sowing into that ministry. Make sure that I’m there. Make sure I’m listening. Make sure, you have to begin to see the value that those who are pouring into you, what they have. You know, like you just said with Elisha and Elijah. It’s like I want a double, whatever I got to do to get the double portion, I want that.
Joyce Meyer: Yeah, Elisha said, «I will not leave you».
Cece Winans: «I will not leave you».
Joyce Meyer: I mean, he tried to, almost looked like he was trying to get rid of him, Elijah did. And he said, «As the Lord lives, I will not leave you». And it was because he hung on, right until he died that, it was at the very end when Elijah said, «What can I do for you»? And then he said, «I want a double portion of your anointing». He would not have gotten that double portion, if he wouldn’t have done just what you said. And I can give you a great example. I’m Chris Cain’s spiritual mother. I met her in Australia when she was in her 20's. And that girl chases me around.
Cece Winans: She did not let you go.
Joyce Meyer: I mean, no, she will not let me go. She sows into my life. And you asked, «What do you do»?
Erin Cluley: Yeah.
Joyce Meyer: You can ask questions. Every time I get together with Chris, she’s got her list of questions.
Cece Winans: I love it.
Joyce Meyer: That she’s ready…
Cece Winans: Intentional, yeah.
Joyce Meyer: To ask me, «How do I handle this»? «How did you handle that»? «What about this»? And she’ll ask me, you know, just different questions. She’s watched mine and dave’s marriage. And she’ll tell you this herself. But the interesting thing is we’re not even together that much. But she reads every book I write. She listens to every teaching I do. So she takes the responsibility, as the mentee. See, we got a new word. As the mentee to pull the mentorship out of me. And I don’t even necessarily know that she’s doing it. And so mentoring, I know a lot of people will say, «Will you mentor me»? Well, obviously, I can’t have a one-hour appointment with 200 people every week and sit down. I think a lot of times that’s what people think mentorship is. But I think that you can be mentored by anybody, that you wanna be mentored by, just by, like she said, «Refusing to let them go». Put yourself in a position where you can hear what they have to say and see how they live.
Erin Cluley: I think that’s so good for us to be reminded that, like, it’s gonna take work on my part. I need to want it, and to invest in it. I think that’s really good.
Joyce Meyer: And I think sowing into their life is very important. There’s certain people in ministry that are even older than me, believe it or not. And I did this even when I was younger. There’s certain people that I have sown financially into their life, and I will as long as they’re alive, because they paid the price to go before me to show me the way. And so often when people get elderly, and they can’t do what they once did, people forget all about 'em.
Ginger Stache: You know, I had a situation like that where God just put this amazing older woman in my life, and for years, decades, literally, she was a wonderful example of a spiritual woman in my life. Prayed for me, was such a gift. She got to a point in her life where she was much older, and was going through a hard time herself, and God gave me the opportunity at that point to pray for her, and to pour into her life, and to be there at a time where she needed someone. And that was another gift to me, you know, because we need that kind of symbiotic relationship, I think, if you’re going to sow into someone’s life, it has to be a two-way street. And so that was a wonderful gift. And I think, Erin, with what you’re saying, there is a responsibility on both of our sides, because it takes time, it takes an investment. But at the same time, I’ve had a lot of young women say, «Will you mentor me»? And then, you know, you’ll talk and do some things and maybe not hear from them. And others that, like you said, just put in the work, and hang in there and you watch them grow. And it’s so exciting.
Cece Winans: It’s beautiful.
Ginger Stache: And it enriches my life as much or more as it does theirs. So I think it is that.
Erin Cluley: Is that how you feel about me? Because I have attached myself to you. I don’t know if I ever told you, but I feel that way. And to be able to watch how I can just learn from situations that are similar that you have walked through, then I can see how I can take what I’m going through and learn from how you handled it. I mean, it has been an amazing gift to my life to see how you can go before me and not even do things on purpose. But the way that you can speak into my life has, I mean, it’s been transformational to me. And God uses you to teach me things on days you don’t even know it’s happening.
Erin Cluley: Excuse me, for sitting a moment between us.
Cece Winans: Oh, I love it, I love it. But that’s the beauty of it, is so beautiful. That’s why we need one another. And going back to what mama Joyce said earlier about how without the Spirit of God, the presence of God, we’re just normal people. You see that through scripture. You see some of our strongest heroes when they got older or went through trials and tribulations. And it just shows you that the secret is Jesus in every generation, you know.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, that’s the secret sauce we need to share.
Cece Winans: That’s the secret sauce we need to share. And he’s designed it that we really experience the best of him together. You know, me needing you and a lot of times we wanna go through life thinking we don’t need people. But we need people.
Ginger Stache: So much, so much. And I see that with you, Erin. I mean, I’ve seen what a gift you are to me, you know, right back the other way. And how you have a heart that just wants to serve God and that really is open. I mean, I can tell you things that some people might have a hard time hearing sometimes. And not that I have to do that often. But I love that we have that kind of love for one another. And that you can tell me the same kind of things.
Joyce Meyer: Uh oh, we’re having another private moment.
Erin Cluley: We’re almost done, I promise.
Cece Winans: I love it, I love it! It is awesome, seeing it in action. But you’re saying something that, you know, when I grew up, the saints that the Lord assigned me under, they really didn’t care about your emotions and feelings that much. So, I grew up not knowing that i, you know, not to be offended by everything. Not to be easily offended.
Ginger Stache: Which is a great thing.
Cece Winans: Which is a great thing. As I speak to the younger people, it’s like, guys, stop trying to be offended. You have to understand that open rebuke is better than secret love, you know. The Word of God, I mean, and yeah, we just have to learn to be able to take a rebuke. That’s part of growing. You can’t grow without a rebuke.
Joyce Meyer: Well, I have never had to do it, but I know, that I know, that I know, that if I called Chris Cain and said, «I heard you say this, you shouldn’t do that». Man, she would listen to me just like that. I realized I had kind of an epiphany a few years ago, and I realized that I had a lot of one-sided relationships. And I made a decision that I wasn’t gonna have that anymore in my life. Because a relationship is not a relationship if it’s one person doing all the giving, and the other person doing all the taking. And I think that’s really good for the mentee and the mentor to hear today. That if you really want somebody to mentor you, you can’t just be you getting everything that you can get from them. You need to sow another, like, you need to pray for them. You know, if there’s something you can do for them, you need to do it. You need to be there for them. You can compliment them. You can encourage them. I just made my mind up, I’m not having any more one-sided relationships. I got tired of it. I felt like people were taking advantage of me. And they just, «Can you do me a favor? Can you do this? Can you do that? Can you do something else»? And then…
Cece Winans: Well, I don’t think, mama Joyce, that it’s a profitable relationship.
Joyce Meyer: No, it’s not. It’s not even good for them.
Cece Winans: It’s not good for them. If when you don’t recognize soil, good soil, and know that you have to sow, because that’s part of learning, you know. And be coming and receiving what you need to receive, that’s part of it. And when you don’t get that, I think it’s just time wasted.
Ginger Stache: So, how do we find that? 'cause we have a lot of questions from people that are asking, «How do I find a good person to mentor me? And how do I know that this is the right person»?
Joyce Meyer: I don’t know that you find them. I think you pray for them. And then God will bring the right people across your path. And you watch for people…
Ginger Stache: And you said people, not always just one person.
Joyce Meyer: No, you watch for people that you wanna be like. Like, one of the things that’s very important to me, is to be generous. I do not wanna be stingy. I mean, that just makes your life so little when you’re stingy. And so, I don’t enjoy being around people that are stingy. I purposely look for and try to spend time with people that are generous. Like, Cece’s a giver, you know. I remember one time I went to tbn and we were gonna be on «Better together» together, and there were like five ladies and she brought gift bags for all five of the people. Well, I can tell you something, it takes time. Don’t even, you can even lay the money side aside. It’s the time it takes to do something like that. So she was sowing into every one of our lives because she took the time to do that. And a lot of times we just wanna take, take, take. But we don’t wanna give back, and you just, you can’t do that. So, I think we try to find too many things, that we need to pray that God will show us, and then keep our eyes open and see what he’s revealing.
Cece Winans: I think that’s good. But I also think when you say, «Finding,» I mean, of course, this is a perfect person to follow and to be mentored by, because she’s teaching the Word of God and she’s living it. I think that has to be your number one quality. Now, you have people who will teach you natural things that are amazing as well. And I think that goes back to what we were talking about before, about discipline and those principles. So, you can learn natural things and spiritual things. But the most important mentors you’ll ever have is spiritual mentors, because it will teach you how to live like Jesus, and also inherit an eternal life. So, I just think you have to find people who reflect the Lord and Savior, because it’s dangerous to follow the wrong one.
Joyce Meyer: Very dangerous!
Ginger Stache: Here’s another question that I think is an important one: how do we handle boundaries in a mentorship relationship? Because it can get too much on one or the other, and not go well and not be effective. So, what boundaries should be put in place?
Cece Winans: Well, how I do it is… Everybody does it differently. But first of all, I’m a wife, mother, grandmother. I go out and I sing, minister, and then I’m at the church.
Ginger Stache: You got a few things going on.
Cece Winans: I got a few things going on. And so like mama Joyce said, a lot of my mentoring is from afar. So, 'cause if I’m doing a life group every week, then if you wanna be mentored, you need to show up to the life group. Because that shows you if you really want to learn or not. You understand what I’m saying? Now, there’s some times where you have to go to the hospital and you’re going to minister to people, I think we’re all called to do that. And sometimes you can have coffee. Sometimes I can look at my schedule and say, «You know what? I can do a coffee here». I actually create space in my schedule to be able to spend time with people. Because I have to do that because you have so many things you have to do. So, I think you have to create time in order to do that. But boundaries, you know, you have to have boundaries, 'cause you’re gonna deal with different people. And some people will respect and know to do the things right. But a lot of people don’t, because again, you’re teaching them. They didn’t come from…
Ginger Stache: You can’t expect them to know everything.
Cece Winans: You can’t expect them to know things. So, you have to be willing to tell them. But you tell them in love. And then they have to learn to respect those boundaries. 'cause if not, then you’re not gonna be able to mentor 'em.
Joyce Meyer: One of the boundaries that I think that a good mentor will set, is like, if you know that somebody is drawing from you and they, «Well, what do you think I should do about this? What do you think I should do about that»? Don’t let that go too far. If you’re a good mentor, you need to teach them how to hear from God themselves. Because sometimes when people are wanting you to mentor them all the time, if you don’t have your head on right, that can become a pride issue of, «Why everybody wants my wisdom and everybody wants my advice». And a wrong mentor can kind of get off on wanting to tell everybody what to do.
Cece Winans: Point you to themselves instead of to the Lord.
Ginger Stache: And then you’re not teaching them anything. You’re just controlling them.
Joyce Meyer: If you’re looking for a good mentor, you wanna find somebody that’s gonna to teach you how to hear from God. Not somebody’s gonna try to tell you what to do all the time.
Erin Cluley: When I had that Revelation last week, how I could do this, it was in the marriage space. And so, I know I can talk to you about business, like, «Leading,» but like, «Marriage,» I know have some wisdom. And so, as I’m having this conversation with this girl, I could feel the Holy Spirit saying, «Stop talking about you». 'cause I could just talk about me and my story the whole time, it’d be good. But I so clearly felt the Lord says, «Shh, let her speak, and then be real careful how you answer». Because I felt the honor and responsibility in that moment, that I only know what I know from what I’ve experienced. And I want her to hear what he’s saying to her in her situation. Her answer’s not the same. So I think that’s so important that it isn’t just about me, and my circumstance and how she should do what I did. It’s how does the Lord want to take her in her experience. And I’m just there to be used however he wants to.
Ginger Stache: That’s really good. One thing in all of this is to realize that it can be messy. I mean, that is why we need one another. We’re learning from each other and teaching one another. So, it’s not always going to be a perfect situation or relationship. I love Proverbs 14:4. It says, «Where there are no oxen, the stalls are clean, but the strength comes from the oxen». We need the people around us to grow stronger, but it’s messy. And sometimes we have to clean up some poopoo along the way because that’s what happens with people. And so we kind of have to be ready and willing to, like you said, «Not be offendable, not be offended». Like Joyce said, «To forgive when we need to forgive». To let some things roll off our back.
Joyce Meyer: Change a diaper when you need to.
Ginger Stache: Exactly, whether it’s theirs or our own, you know.
Joyce Meyer: Take a pacifier away from 'em.
Ginger Stache: Right, so these are hard relationships sometimes.
Cece Winans: Definitely, definitely. It pulls you out of your comfort zone. You know, you gotta be willing to, like you said, «Deal with messy situations». You gotta be willing to, it’s not a perfect… Well, it’s perfect when it’s messy.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, true, perfectly messy.
Cece Winans: Perfectly messy, you know, because Jesus came, again, we talked about Jesus, how he always had time for people. How he did not try to avoid, going back to the good Samaritan, try to avoid the problem. No, that’s a part of mentorship. That’s the only way you’re gonna be able to mentor somebody.
Joyce Meyer: Well, I think that we shared some really good points for people if they really heard what we had to say. That it can’t be a one-way street. It’s gotta be two ways. And you not only pull from somebody, but you also pour into them. It’s always got to be a give and a take. Ask questions. There’s nothing wrong with asking questions. And set boundaries. You know, don’t just let somebody, don’t get so excited about somebody wanting your wisdom all the time, that you just let them, that you start getting a kick out of them wanting you all the time. You gotta kind of set a little boundary on yourself here that you’re not gonna let this go to your head. But you’re gonna make it a real godly relationship.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, well, even if they have like, their little chin strap tied up on their chin. I can’t picture that, I’ve not seen this.
Joyce Meyer: Oh yeah, those were interesting days.
Ginger Stache: Well, bring it back. Maybe you should bring that trend back, Joyce.
Cece Winans: Hey, all of 'em come right back around.
Joyce Meyer: Am I the only person here that ever did…
Cece Winans: I don’t remember…
Joyce Meyer: You don’t remember that? Well, see, that’s 'cause I’m older than you. There has to be somebody.
Cece Winans: I remember this, but not here.
Joyce Meyer: Okay, if you ever wore the knot on your head scarf on your chin…
Cece Winans: Let us know.
Erin Cluley: We need to know.
Ginger Stache: Put some comments in social media, let us know.
Joyce Meyer: Comment, tell us. Then we’ll know how old you are.
Ginger Stache: We’ve all done some goofy things, though, for fashion. Let’s admit it. Well, I just wanna encourage all of you to pray about this. Take a minute now, and pray about who God might want you to share some wisdom with, or who you might be able to watch and to glean some beautiful things from that will lead you closer to him, because it will enrich both of your lives. And I think as you walk through this journey, growing closer to Jesus every single day, you’ll get there a little bit faster if you do it with the help of other people, who have been doing it before you.